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Now seriously Cathy, if you are having this problem, I would let my children go to their houses. It’s as simple as that. Of course the problem here is that the government’s current policy allows all content from “G” rated to “X18+” and only a maximum of 10,000 urls can be filtered due to the limitations of the software (the current amount of urls on the web is in the order of 1 trillion and growing a 1 billion a day) and even worse urls on high traffic sites cause the cesonorware to crash. There are already two urls on the blacklist from Youtube (euthanasia videos) and one on Wikipedia. Google has already publicly nixed the idea of removing these videos from Youtube and Wikipedia has a no censorship policy. So already the government’s internet censorship policy is pretty much unworkable. Add in the fact that I’m an adult who has no children, so why do I have to be censored? Especially when you factor in that I’ve been on the internet since 1995 and have had no problems. But the biggest issue I really have with the policy is that it’s a massive waste of money that solves no problems, and will create a number of issues for law abiding web users such as security problems.

Cathy said “Tan, you want evidence that rapists and serial killers always have an extensive porn collection? I’m not going to write you an essay but I can give you one reference, John Douglas talks about this in his book “MindHunter” which details his extensive experience with killers and rapists”.

While rapists may have porn collections, porn is not the cause of rape. There seems to be no correlation between porn and rape. The Japanese statistics are really interesting as the amount of porn and the types, some of which do include rape fantasy and all kinds of strange and misogyny stuff (dismembering women, tentacle monsters etc, note that most of this stuff popped up over the years due to censorship laws, see Helen McCarthy and Jonathan Clemments’ book “The Erotic Anime Movie Guide” for a breakdown and history of how this happened), yet they have really low rape and assault figures. Same in Australia. In the ACT where X18+ is legal, low sex assault rates, high in Queensland where R18+ publications are banned, but high in NT where X18+ and R18+ publications are legal. There‘s a lot of factors going on here that which include culture and socioeconomic backgrounds. Just saying porn causes it is really simplistic and untrue.

And one of my favourite quotes; “In Ted Bundy’s case, no serious social scientist or law enforcement officer takes the explanation that ‘pornography made me do it’ seriously. Well before Bundy turned the pages of a sexually explicit magazine or watched an adult video he was exhibiting bizarre behaviour. Dr Dorothy Lewis, who conducted multiple interviews with the killer just after his arrest, reported that Bundy was a highly disturbed child at the age of three. When Bundy was first arrested in 1978, early interviews with police and psychiatrists reveal that the killer referred to popular sexually explicit magazines as ‘normal healthy sexual stimuli’. It was only in the 1980s, when a court refused to certify him insane and to save him from the electric chair, that Bundy became a born-again Christian and reiterated the party line on pornography.”

Source: Dealing with Pornography: The Case Against Censorship, Paul Wilson, University of New South Wales Press Ltd, 1995

Cathy said “In 2010, porn treats women as “objects” to own, use and dispose of. A study could not find one single man who hadn’t seen it, average age of first exposure is 11. A large demographic of porn users is between 11-17.”

Cathy, I’m going to have to call bollocks on your 11 to 17 figure. Where on Earth does that figure come from?

I do have a filter on my own computer, but sometimes my child will go to other people’s houses where they don’t have filters. It’s not fair that when I let my guard down – if we can call letting my son visit others as “letting my guard down” – they might see some of this horrific stuff that is out there. Kids also get images off their unfiltered computers, upload them onto their msn profile pics or thumbnail pics (which the filter doesn’t pick up) and send them on to kid’s mobile phones. If other kids cannot access it so easily on the net, then they can’t forward it on.

Tan, you want evidence that rapists and serial killers always have an extensive porn collection? I’m not going to write you an essay but I can give you one reference, John Douglas talks about this in his book “MindHunter” which details his extensive experience with killers and rapists.

Note that I did not say that all men who use porn rape women (thank goodness) but that those who do rape always have a porn habit. This was said to rebut the assertion that men rape because they do not have porn, which is false.

So as to your question about what men did “before porn” – there have always been manifestations of degradation and objectification of women throughout history, whether it be through porn or religious attitudes of “ownership” of women, laws that said women couldn’t own property, couldn’t leave their houses when pregnant etc. All of these rules surrounding ownership amount to the idea that women are not equal and are lesser than men.

In 2010, porn treats women as “objects” to own, use and dispose of. A study could not find one single man who hadn’t seen it, average age of first exposure is 11. A large demographic of porn users is between 11-17. The most sought after variety is “hard core” (not couples and for women varieties). How are we to expect this next generation to respect women if they’re constantly fantasising about violating these “whores” and “sluts?”

Will respond on the rest of your post later Matthew W. By the way it’s nice to finally see someone from your particular point of view engaging in discussion rather than abuse. Not convinced by the way that these “anonymous” hackers are from the states. I don’t think Q & A is broadcast there.

Evidence please? And what about the rapists in the 1800s and the many years before that? Where was their porn?

And you should have installed a filter for your own son instead of complaining about the exposure he gets. You seem competent enough to install a filter I hope.

While I don’t have much love for Ms Patten’s little outfit, and while I do agree that a lot of the porn on the market, the so called “Gonzo” stuff from the US is pretty horrible, not all porn is like this. There are sub sections which are aimed at couples and a very small women’s market. Painting everything with the same brush and demonizing it is not helping.

One of the problems I have with some of the work Melinda’s work is if the proposed R18+ magazine change goes through, softcore titles like Mayfair, Club and even some of the US issues of Playboy can only be sold in adult shops. Seeing as adult shops generally don’t sell magazines anymore, they’ll essentially be a thing of the past. So that the hardcore stuff which isn’t really pleasant for a lot of men (me included), so you see the only type of porn that will be available is the Gonzo stuff, which is pretty much as you describe. A secondary problem is not all R18+ publications are porn. For example the acclaimed novel “American Psycho”, the comic anthology Heavy Metal Magazine and the euthanasia book “Last Exit” are all R18+ Category 1 publications. All of them will be forced into adult shops, but do you really think adult shops will sell them?

Cathy said: “In fact many of the porn apologists on this blog have decided to do the same thing by being abusive in their posts. Coincidence? i think not.”

No, as I explained before, they’re from Anonymous. Do you really expect a 15 year old kid who plays games all day and posts crap (see “lolcats”) on 4Chan to be civil? They’re idiots. They’re irrelevant. Take no notice of them.

Cathy said: “Actually Matthew W, sometimes it does “pop up” on your browser, like when my son searched for cute cartoon that he had seen on youtube and the associated videos were of “horny sluts.” A search for “Dora the explorer color in” brought me to a page where “Dora” is someone who is just dying to get her gear off.”

Seriously, you need to help yourself here. First supervise your children online. Second get yourself PC based webfilter. But most of all change your settings on Google to “Safesearch”. Have mine on moderate and could not replicate the results you got, although I got some Bob the Builder pictures mixed in with Dora.

Cathy said: “The average age of first exposure to porn is 11, how are kids growing up in an environment of “sluts” and “c**k” sockets” supposed to develop a healthy sexuality? healthy relationships?”

Funny you should say that, I had no trouble at all. I adore the women in my life despite the fact I purposely searched out porn during my teen years (as men are visually stimulated, the female form was absolutely fascinating to me, and still is). I could always determine the difference between fantasy and reality. I do find it disappointing that the only way I found out what a Vulva actually looked like and where the clitoris was via Penthouse. School and my parents really failed me in this area and in how to deal with relationships (I also had undiagnosed Aspergers syndrome, so my lack of empathy didn’t help either). There was no real education about his at all in my teenage years (mid 1980’s to very early 1990’s). You’re expected just to fumble around like an idiot and are given no guidance in this area at all. This is the REAL problem. Blaming porn and banning it doesn’t help in any regard. It’s tackling the core of issue which is preparing children for adulthood in the very important areas of relationships and sex.

We need proper sex education (not the crappy sterile biology lessons I got that treated sex as something clinical) and to teach both young men and women that surprise, surprise, they are different from each other and want different things from the relationship. Respect and negotiation skills within a relationship need to be taught, and as far as I’m aware this isn’t happening. As I said before banning stuff to fix social problems has never worked. Hey, it might make you feel good to ban something, but the core problem will still be there unsolved, and you may end up causing more problems with the ban anyway.

In fact many of the porn apologists on this blog have decided to do the same thing by being abusive in their posts. Coincidence? i think not. Then they complain that their opponents have “headed for the hills.” Where did they get the idea that women would want to stick around and be abused and humiliated? oh that’s right, i covered that in my previous paragraph.

Actually Matthew W, sometimes it does “pop up” on your browser, like when my son searched for cute cartoon that he had seen on youtube and the associated videos were of “horny sluts.” A search for “Dora the explorer color in” brought me to a page where “Dora” is someone who is just dying to get her gear off.

The average age of first exposure to porn is 11, how are kids growing up in an environment of “sluts” and “c**k” sockets” supposed to develop a healthy sexuality? healthy relationships? If these are the images and ideas that young people achieve orgasm over, it’s no wonder that women endure sexual harrassment and sexual assault. We’re just “c**k sockets” remember? why would we deserve any respect?

someone wrote this – “Less porn = higher statistics of rape.” There is no man in jail for rape, because he didn’t have access to porn. Contrary to this, all rapists and serial killers have a large collection of porn and often copy porn in “acting out” their sick fantasies on real women.

Of course, not all men who view porn rape women, which is fortunate for us. All people will respond to different stimuli differently, some won’t be affected, others most definitely will. However, I think when we have a proliferation of images that promote sex as something that is “done” to a woman, where women like the abusive language, the violence, the degradation with up to a dozen partners – please tell me how this doesn’t have an impact on how men view women in terms of relationships and sexuality?

How sad that some people see sex as something that a man “acts out” on his partner.

Look, the demographic of Anonymous is mostly made of American upper middle class teenage boys who play games a lot. These are the people who created “lolcats” and “Rickrolling”. Geniuses they ain’t. Any type of lobby or representatives of the porn industry they ain’t. Representative of the anti censorship movement, they ain’t. Perhaps Melinda could spend about five minutes googleing “Anonymous”, “4chan” and “/b/” so she can get a proper understanding of what this whole Anonymous thing is about and why writing what she wrote about them is similar to poking a hornet’s nest with a stick repeatedly.

I disagree that all pornography is inherently harmful. It is an outgrowth of voyeurism, and I will not judge people on what excites them. There is nothing wrong in fantasy. The point of fantasy is to explore possibilities that may not be feasible to execute in reality, whether for physical, financial or ethical reasons. I see nothing wrong in a film that explores an abuse of a power relationship, such as teacher / student, as long as all participants (including the viewers) are consenting adults.

Our culture does have a youth fetish; it isn’t surprising to see pornography catering to this. Many older women have crushes on younger celebrities, recent examples are Edward Cullen or Harry Potter. Britney Spears played a similar role to older men. There is no shame in having the crush, as long as it isn’t acted upon. Even then, that isn’t the complete story. Most people wouldn’t have any problems with a 19 year old male having a 17 year old girlfriend or vice versa. This isn’t a black and white issue. It’s complicated and nuanced.

I do not really buy the argument that pornography naturally leads to violence against women. This suggests things about humans that I’m not comfortable with. It suggests that exposure to particular kinds of media is equivalent to mind control. It ultimately takes responsibility away from those who commit acts of violence. I don’t think there is an excuse for behaving in such a manner towards anyone, let alone women. Regardless, this is an old argument in feminism and it isn’t going to be solved anytime soon.

I think the real problem of pornography is that it exposes the sorry state of sex education. Regardless of how you feel about pornography, the Internet has certainly made it easy to access. No technological solution will ever be able to filter out all pornography from the Internet. The long and the short is, ubiquitous access to pornography is here; the horse has well and truly bolted. What do we do about it?

Pornography is intended as entertainment for adults. The sexual positions and acts seen are intended to titillate the audience, not give pleasure to the performers. Camera angles and what looks good are more important than that pleasure. As was well put in a quote I read recently, “to learn about sex from pornography, is like learning to drive by watching The Fast and the Furious”. This is true regardless of whether the pornography was produced with a male or a female gaze.

Adolescents are not asexual beings. Their bodies are changing and they have questions about the previously unexperienced emotions and urges that arise. Our culture is pretty messed up. We can’t openly talk about these subjects. It embarrasses or offends us. Not being to be able to get answers from parents or schools, adolescents turn to their peers and the Internet. If they are learning that all females seem to enjoy having semen ejaculated onto their faces without evening being asked (say), there are going to be unhappy sexual relationships in the next generation.

What we need to do is stop being so juvenile and talk about what makes a healthy happy sexual relationship with our children. If you don’t feel you can do that, there are plenty of quality books that tackle the subject. The ideal, at least to me, is that all sexual relationships should be based on open communication about what makes each participant feel happy, and where their boundaries are. Pornography cannot teach this, and pretending it doesn’t exist will not solve the underlying problem.

This is about the only intersection between pornography and the proposed Internet filter. The filter too is about hiding a problem. The filter has been scaled back to only cover Refused Classification material.

This is a uniquely Australian category that is not synonymous with illegal. If someone enjoys candle wax or light spanking as part of a healthy sexual relationship that is their business alone. They should be able to get films of such acts without the government deciding that it is offensive. The Internet has been around for over 20 years now. Access to this material has clearly not collapsed society. Australia is not demonstratively better than places that do not restrict access to Refused Classification material in publications or films. There is no evidence that it serves the Australian public, and it violates an essential freedom. What I’d really like is for the Refused Classification category to be abolished. It’s continued existence is a government claim that Australians are particularly feeble minded compared to people elsewhere in the world. I don’t think that is true.

In the public sphere, I agree, I do not want overtly sexual (or violent, or religious, etc) advertisements or popular culture. However in the privacy of our own homes, or among a group of likeminded adults, we should be able to explore any ideas no matter how confronting or offensive others might find them. I do not accept that as a responsible adult there is any material that I am incapable of handling. I do not need the government to make that decision for me.

With regards to rape (child abuse is a subset of rape), there is a clear lack of consent. Both at the time the material was produced, and again when it was publicly released. Such material should be destroyed, not hidden behind some imperfect filter. It is the only ethical thing to do.

I would be happy if half the Defence budget went to law enforcement that is responsible for catching people who violate the consent of others. It seems a much better use of the money than maintaining the force necessary to annihilate another country. However, I do not agree with laws that make thoughtcrimes of victimless explorations of fantasy. I do not agree with proposals that attempt to limit information. It is for that reason that I do not support the filter.